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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 5, 2009 5:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Well, I agree with you on the basic premise, but given how much $$ was pure speculation on the supposed increase in value of homes, ie, the "repackaged instrument", we have to factor that in. IE, in a completely oversimplified fashion, we take 1000 mortgages, valued at twice their real value, and resell them at the new face value. Even if they do not default, we have revalue ALL of them because this "instrument" is a bill of goods, given current home prices.

Now, that's one aspect. The other (among many) factor is that for all of the Wall Street activity, whatever it be, the Greenspan-esque encouragement of growth at all costs, led to it being the situation that any number of entities are currently over-valued. EG, how could anyone but a complete MORON value any of the US automakers at anything other than a complete BUST, at ANY time over the past ten yrs? And yet, as we all know, THEY WERE FINE up til October 2007. Why? Ask Greenspan and friends. Any company with the debt they had with respect to labor, past and present, and the product they produced, should have been bankrupt long ago...But, like the banks you lament, they are too big to suffer.

Anyway, that's just the tip of iceberg.

I dunno much, but I do think it extends well beyond housing...and we are going to continue to pay the price.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Apr 5, 2009 10:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Here's a theory: remember how for years the Pentagon purposely over-estimated Russian military capability in order to pump up their budget? Couldn't the big Wall Street houses purposely exaggerate the amount of bad paper they have in order to get more bailout money? The first installment simply 'disappeared' without even one of the banks' situations improving...

But enough of my cockamammie theories, check this out instead, it will help you visualize the amounts of money being bandied about...maybe:

http://digg.com/d1mevu


This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-04-06 05:18:00

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Apr 6, 2009 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

holy freakin crap!!!

i knew it was going to be big, but..... (words I hear from the ladies all the time)

;)

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Apr 6, 2009 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

tv, the tool of the gov. frank was right!!! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-66FJ_Tdh-c&;feature=related

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 7, 2009 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Just want to add that the regulations instituted in 1929 were relaxed in the early 80's under Reagan and his trickle-down economics bullshit. What we ended up with was that financial scare and bailout at the tail-end of the 80's, when I was still in diapers in the Ukraine. Bush kept relaxing regulations and by the time my family immigrated to the USA in 1994, Clinton was the lovable pretty boy president and could do no wrong until he copped a BJ from an intern. By the end of his second term, he and his administration helped to push through the repeal of the Glass-Steagal act that had previously applied the same rules to regular banking done by you and I and the corporate banking done by huge investment firms. Wall Street celebrated and thanked the politicians with nice fat stacks of cash. As everyone knows, GWB did whatever was told and this trend continued. Now we've got Obama helping to give away over a trillion dollars to these very same corporate thieves.

So you all are right, this is high-level fraud, but this is nothing new! It's just that the scale of this fraud has grown to the point where this fake money creation by the financial architects of this country drove economic growth, as seen in the 10% growth in real estate prices each year, 20% in California. For years and years everyone was told to invest in real estate and the loans were flowing freely. This demand for housing drove the huge developments we have seen sprouting up everywhere that destroyed the forests outside cities in order to put up ecologically unsound suburbs from which people drive their SUVs miles and miles to get to work, to buy food, etc.

Whoa. End Rant.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 7, 2009 10:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Just want to add that the regulations instituted in 1929 were relaxed in the early 80's under Reagan and his trickle-down economics bullshit. What we ended up with was that financial scare and bailout at the tail-end of the 80's, when I was still in diapers in the Ukraine. Bush kept relaxing regulations and by the time my family immigrated to the USA in 1994, Clinton was the lovable pretty boy president and could do no wrong until he copped a BJ from an intern. By the end of his second term, he and his administration helped to push through the repeal of the Glass-Steagal act that had previously applied the same rules to regular banking done by you and I and the corporate banking done by huge investment firms. Wall Street celebrated and thanked the politicians with nice fat stacks of cash. As everyone knows, GWB did whatever was told and this trend continued. Now we've got Obama helping to give away over a trillion dollars to these very same corporate thieves.

So you all are right, this is high-level fraud, but this is nothing new! It's just that the scale of this fraud has grown to the point where this fake money creation by the financial architects of this country drove economic growth, as seen in the 10% growth in real estate prices each year, 20% in California. For years and years everyone was told to invest in real estate and the loans were flowing freely. This demand for housing drove the huge developments we have seen sprouting up everywhere that destroyed the forests outside cities in order to put up ecologically unsound suburbs from which people drive their SUVs miles and miles to get to work, to buy food, etc.

Whoa. End Rant.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 7, 2009 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Yeah, another fine mess Ronnie got us into...I know, I know; everyone has to take some blame, dems and repubs, BUT even if completely lame, the dems did it under the guise of "everyone deserves a home" and the like (sounds great of course cause I'm a bleeding heart at heart, but I know now it ain't necessarily so), whereas the repubs under RR and GBII did it under "free market rules!" and such, and now we find out just how wrong that is, etc., etc. Ranting and raving, ranting and raving...

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Apr 7, 2009 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

But the Republicans aren't true Free Marketers. If they were, they'd allow businesses to fail (Ronnie bailed out Chrysler, after all.) You can't be sort-of a Free Marketer in order for the system to work. It's kind of like being sort-of pregnant...

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 8, 2009 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

With a few notable exceptions, the Democrats and Republicans have essentially the same economic policy... they just sugar it over in different ways that appeal to different demographics.

At least we've got Ron Paul, Nader, Kucinich among others that keep it real!

As a wise man once said, "I'm still a hippie. I believe in Peace, Love and Community."

Although its important to be aware of the larger socio-political arena (national, global, etc.), WE as humans and citizens have much more influence in our communities and that is the scale on which we can make positive changes with regards to food, energy, spirituality, and all that other good stuff.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Apr 8, 2009 2:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

I agree 100 percent

Jerry quotes:

jerry5.jpg

a. It's pretty clear now that what looked like it might have been some kind of counterculture is, in reality, just the plain old chaos of undifferentiated weirdness.

b. I can envisage a new world in which society has a way for there to be music, whose function is to get you high, that's the sort of thing we're hammering at. To get really high is to forget yourself and to forget yourself is to see everything else; and to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. That's why I think it's important to get high.

c. 1967: What we're thinking about is a peaceful planet. We're not thinking of anything else. We're not thinking about any kind of power. We're not thinking about any of those kinds of struggles. We're not thinking about revolution or war or any of that. We would all like to be able to live an uncluttered life, a simple life, a good life and think about moving the whole human race ahead a step.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 8, 2009 2:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

d. Debbie Koons to Mt Girl (1995) "Bitch, you're not setting foot on this boat" as they set sail to scatter his ashes.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Apr 8, 2009 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

damn, BD... I never apologized for my ignorance way the heck back. Thanks for being the first one here to enlighten my dumb ass. But, my little rant was timelessly point-on.Thanks, man.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 8, 2009 3:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

No need to apologize. I appreciate all the info/links you post - and appreciate your taping efforts back in the day, not to mention your frontline work on marijuana reform. Anyways, Koons was recently here in Monterey promoting a new documentary. I know she is doing some cool stuff in relation to food issues, but I can't get past some of her antics. Then again, I didn't marry her. But if you read Phil's book, he has less than kind words regarding how she treated Mt Girl when they scattered Jerry's ashes.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 8, 2009 1:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

True enough! I have been disgusted for many years with the two party system as largely it is just a matter of where to spend your money (defense or welfare?) etc., etc.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 8, 2009 1:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Let pay welfare queens to fight on the front lines!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7txCdLCP9U

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 8, 2009 3:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

There you go! That just might solve it--welfare via the military industrial complex!

What an Eisenhowerian Solution! Final? Perhaps.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 8, 2009 1:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Oh yeah, I caught that bit too...As DP notes below, they really have morphed into being largely similar, but I like to pick out the trivial differences to rant about now and again...the whole too big to fail (which at some level I can buy, though disturbing) is not unlike saying "well, it must be time for soft socialism" (ie, we have to nationalize/regulate/etc. for the greater good...which again, I can sympathize with...if banks are too big to fail, why isn't the health care system too big to be private, etc., etc. etc.).

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 8, 2009 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

With a few notable exceptions, the Democrats and Republicans have essentially the same economic policy... they just sugar it over in different ways that appeal to different demographics.

At least we've got Ron Paul, Nader, Kucinich among others that keep it real!

As a wise man once said, "I'm still a hippie. I believe in Peace, Love and Community."

Although its important to be aware of the larger socio-political arena (national, global, etc.), WE as humans and citizens have much more influence in our communities and that is the scale on which we can make positive changes with regards to food, energy, spirituality, and all that other good stuff.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Apr 5, 2009 8:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tea Party. Not Dead. Only Broke.

Also really good are articles in the current Rolling Stone and in Harper's, plus continuing articles in places by mainline bigtime economists like George Stiglitz and Paul Krugman.